Material IQ Episode 003: “Engineering a Better Panel with Climate-Positive Plywood”

The following podcast transcript was generated with Whisper AI and may contain errors.

Meghan Bell • 00:09
Architects and designers are so wonderfully placed to be able to instill change in the market. When you feel so good about something you’re more motivated to get up and go to work, you’re more motivated to get up and do the next thing, and I really do feel like we’re making a difference.

Kenn Busch • 00:26
Hi, I’m Ken Bush. This is the Material IQ podcast. And if your goals include making a difference by using the most sustainable materials you can find without compromising design, durability, or breaking the budget, then I think you’re really going to enjoy this conversation. We’re here today to talk about a material that we all know, TFL, thermally fused laminate decorative panels and another material that we all know, plywood, coming together to create something new for the North American market. The company Funder, part of Genesis products, has launched a new TFL material with a plywood core instead of the typical particle board or sometimes MDF, a plywood core that is sustainably grown and sustainably produced by a company called Garnica. The you heard at the top of the podcast is Meghan Bell. She’s from Garnica and she talked a little bit about why it feels good to specify a material like this, why it helps make a difference. And we’re going to dig deep into that, but first of all, who is Meghan?

Meghan Bell • 01:35
So I am the product specialist as well as I look after architect and design development for North America. I’ve dove into the trees and really the process of how the plywood’s made, doing research on the standards of our North American standards, as well as other standards, to understand why

Kenn Busch • 01:57
Garnica is so superior. And from Genesis Funder, we have Chris Tytuska. Chris, tell us a little bit about you and a little bit about Genesis, if you would. Yeah, so Chris Tytuska, product director

Chris Tutuska • 02:09
of the three Funder facilities here. The three Funder facilities are part of the larger 14 plants. The business that I’m particularly involved with is the kitchen and closet industry, and we call that the industrial side of our business. Within that space, we have a lot of capabilities, servicing the whole kind of cabinet and closet industries. From the lamination side, we have all surfaces covered. Roll lamination, we do low-faces, weight papers, 2D foil lamination, HPL lamination, and what I’m involved with TFL lamination.

Kenn Busch • 02:48
And Genesis has a very elaborate door program as well. Laminated doors made out of 3DL or five piece wrapped doors made out of other types of lighter weight surfaces. Slab doors. Drawer boxes made with wrapped components or plywood. Even powder coated wood components. And an acoustic line, acoustic treatments made out of a sustainable material called Quel. and that’s Q-W-E-L. But all the laminate materials are available as coordinated matching or complimentary surfaces. So you can get your matches made by Genesis rather than as a designer or a manufacturer trying to hunt around and find all these different materials that will somehow look just right when they’re all used together.

Chris Tutuska • 03:36

• Right, so in our surface synergy collection, we do have, you know, we start out with the TFL patterns cores, solids and wood grains. And we match those. We feel that our surface synergy program is the most accurate in the industry for matching across the different surfaces that any manufacturer, cabinet, closet producer might want to use because we know that it’s a challenge and pain point for people that have had scar tissue using kind of generic industry cross reference sheets. And so we stand behind the accuracy of these matches across TFL, across the edge banding, across HPL, across 3D and 2D vinyls. And so, you know, if you, you know, are selecting something out of our program, you can kind of have a little bit of ease of mind that this is going to match. I don’t have to go through all of the development work to and frankly, it’s usually a hard push to get all of that and it takes time, time that a lot of people don’t have. And so that’s what we’re trying to address is taking some of that upfront work out.

Kenn Busch • 04:50
And that’s a huge, that’s been a huge bugaboo the whole time I’ve been in the industry is how do I value engineer this, this project or this interior, you know, space without compromising my design integrity, you know, without, you know, you’ve got to versus over engineering or trying to use the same material on every possible surface, right? So you guys are that consultant, right? You’re the, you’re the, that, that source, that resource for, let’s say a curated matching program across so many different materials. And I’m trying to remember what your motto is. Is it, is it, there’s nothing we can’t do or is it

Chris Tutuska • 05:26
resistance is futile? Maybe a little bit of both. So all of these components and materials we’ve been

Kenn Busch • 05:34
been talking about, you know, these are laminates and overlays and substrates that are available out in the market that Genesis uses to create value added components for commercial and residential interior design. But the TFL, the funder TFL panels are actually produced in-house. Is that right, Chris?

Chris Tutuska • 05:51
Yeah. And we produce TFL on any number of core substrates. That could be particle board. That could be MDF. That could be plywood. of those even delve into some odd board sizes and then some also some some makeups, whether that’s a moisture resistant, fire resistant, FSC certified, ULEF, you name it. You know, there’s a there’s a whole host of cores that we use to meet certain product and project specifications.

Kenn Busch • 06:23
You said plywood under TFL? Yes. What? Yep. Tell us why you’re doing that.

Chris Tutuska • 06:31
So plywood, especially in the cabinet industry, a lot of the manufacturers use it as a lever to have an upcharge that is basically just by switching out the core, they can demand a higher price. The consumer in America knows that that is probably a higher quality product that has better resistance to moisture. definitely stronger than when it comes to MOE and MOR as far as being able to hold more weight. And even with doing that, it’s a lighter weight product. So overall, it’s a step up in quality and I think it’s been communicated that’s a step up in craftsmanship. So it allows them to charge

Kenn Busch • 07:19
a higher price for it. So plywood is an unusual material for TFL, at least in my experience? Is this new to the market overall?

Chris Tutuska • 07:31
Yeah, I’ll address why it’s been kind of a challenge in previous versions. And so previous iterations of plywood used in the TFL application. For one reason or the other, there’s been some voids and some whether it splices, whether it’s actually voids from you know, knots in the actual slicing veneers that make up the plywood platform. Those are a problem if you don’t have consistency within the plywood platform, because if you can think about having a core that is experiencing a lot of pressure in a short amount of time, if there’s nothing pushing back and there’s a void in the core, that plate cannot touch and cure the melamine treated paper to the substrate.

Kenn Busch • 08:20
What do these voids mean in the finished panel?

Chris Tutuska • 08:23
People that buy our products, they don’t want to see a big kind of milky white spot anywhere from three inches to four inches wide. What we’ve developed with Guernica, because of their consistency of their plywood platform and they’re basically virtually void free core. We have a very low scrap rate. We have a material thickness accuracy, probably nothing that I’ve ever seen in plywood. And so, yeah, it’s just, and we can get into more of the details on what that means to the end user, the manufacturer. But yeah, that’s exactly why this product addresses some of those previous problems with plywood previous attempts to launch it in the market.

Kenn Busch • 09:14

• Meghan, you’ve got some expertise in this plywood that we’re talking about, right? – I do. – I’ve been really amazed to hear how much has gone into engineering this perfect substrate that Funder is now using in their TFL. Please give us some history of Garnica and how this perfect plywood core came to be.

Meghan Bell • 09:36

• Garnica is a Spanish company out of La Crona La Rioja. It all starts really at the nursery in the mother tree. So each clone is taken from the mother tree by a clipping, it’s planted in the earth by the mother tree. It grows for one to two years. And then they do a secondary clipping where they basically take down the tree. They put it into an irrigation trench essentially where it can re-root and then it’s moved over into the plantation. Now in the plantation, it grows for 12 to 15 years and every one to two years, they go through an aggressive pruning where they trim the branches up as far as is healthy for the tree. Now this helps the tree grow very straight, very tall and very fast. It also allows for those growth rings to grow around the scars of the initial trimmings. And then that gives clear veneers up incredible lengths of that tree. So when you’re doing the rotary cutting process, you’re starting at the outside, gets turned into a cylinder, and then it’s like an unraveling kind of like paper towel. So when that unraveling starts, you have clear veneers until you see those scars. Now those scars are quite small because we’re just trimming limbs, little limbs, and it’s every one to two years, they don’t have enough time to grow that large. When it comes to a lot of plywood manufacturers, many of them source third trees from the wild. So what happens there is there’s no control, right? There’s no control over the way that tree grows and so it can grow in all different directions as well as having large limbs and those would contribute to voids within the core.

Kenn Busch • 11:19

• So I understand Garinika started cloning poplar trees right around World War II. Tell us more about these clones.

Meghan Bell • 11:28

• We have about 230 clones available. around 10 clones are the most commonly used. In 2025, we used wood from 32 different popular clones.

Kenn Busch • 11:40

• When you say clone, this is, is it the same as the mother tree you mentioned earlier? So tell us a little bit about the family tree of your trees.

Meghan Bell • 11:52

• Well, the trees actually, when you go to Benios 1 and you go to the plantation and you see the nursery, the mother tree is actually like growing in all different directions. And that’s ’cause we’ve taken lots of clippings and she’s grown and she’s grown. And there’s multiple different mother trees in the line. And then down the line are each of her clones. So the mother tree, there’s probably many different mother trees. And then the clones are clipped off of those and put in the ground next to them. And that’s how they’re able to root.

Kenn Busch • 12:24

• Oh, it’s so nice you keep the families together. Are there certain traits that are passed along from these different mother trees to the generations that follow?

Meghan Bell • 12:40

• They try to keep the same genes in the way that they grow straight, they grow tall, they grow fast, but what’s different is they change them for droughts, they change them for pests, and they change them for like growing well in an area. So they’re color coded after they’re taken from the nursery and then those color coding’s determine which plantation they go to.

Kenn Busch • 13:09

• And then at what age are they harvested and what is the process for creating this famous plywood that funder is so in love with?

Meghan Bell • 13:19

• Mm-hmm, so the trees are brought from the plantation to the log yard. there, they’re go through like a metal detector because any sort of small nail or anything can ruin the lathe knife. So they go through the metal detector, then they’re debarked and then they go into the rotary lathe. So one knife strips the tree into a perfect cylinder. The second knife is much sharper and gives the veneers. The veneers that come off are pristine. I’ve been there. I’ve seen it. It’s, it is gorgeous to look at. You wouldn’t believe that. There were any limbs in the first place. Then they go through. Now we can peel at the four by eight, as well as the eight by four, the five by 10 as well as the 10 by five, because we have our own trees and we’re able to cut them into certain lengths. And that allows for no splicing within the core. So it’s whole piece of near then all the way through, which then talks to what Chris was talking about, about those splicings causing issues when you are pressing a TFL.

Kenn Busch • 14:25

• So how thick are these slices? I mean, walk us through just sort of a 101 of how plywood is made from the veneer slices.

Meghan Bell • 14:33

• The veneer slices, it’s kind of like an unraveling of paper towels. So essentially it goes through the lathe and the knife draws it out and it’s like unraveling that paper towel. So they’re quite thin. And then those veneers are then stacked at right angles to each other. So the long grain is called long grain, and then there’s a cross grain. Now we have the best veneers on the cross grain, which is right underneath the surface. And that allows us to be able to give exceptional screw holding capabilities, um, as well as a pristine surface for that TFL or any sort of laminate or wood veneer on top.

Kenn Busch • 15:21
So the plywood that the funder is using is your pop poplar core. And are these the same poplar trees we think of here in North America? Or is this a different European poplar is a different animal, so to speak?

Meghan Bell • 15:37
It is a different animal because we have very stringent rules on how they grow and how they’re taken care of. So the trimming of the tree, all the different things, those contribute to the way that that tree grows and gives you the pristine veneers that we’re able to offer. Those aren’t going to be able to be offered from any of the popular trees in North America because we source

Kenn Busch • 16:01
from the wild. How long does it take for these popular trees to mature? So anywhere from 12 to

Meghan Bell • 16:10
to 15 years, we generally harvest at 20 centimeters in diameter.

Kenn Busch • 16:18
So you let it get big enough, you don’t like, you don’t, you don’t come forward on its 15th birthday or something like that?

Meghan Bell • 16:25
No, and we do have very stringent rules for the environment as well. So we use, because poplar is a species that does not need a canopy and we are consistently replanting. We have a clear cutting process, but there are certain times of the year that you can’t clear cut in certain areas. For example, the European mink is an endangered species. So when they’re going through their reproduction stage, we have very stringent rules on what times of the year we can pull and what time of the year we can’t insert in areas.

Kenn Busch • 17:00
So the title we were playing with for this conversation is TFL on engineered plywood AI that the AI a materials pledge in action.

Meghan Bell • 17:12
So the ESG is.

Kenn Busch • 17:14
Mm hmm. Yes.

Meghan Bell • 17:15
Yes. When it comes to Gernika, Gernika has the trees. Also the plywood panels themselves sequester carbon. There’s 22 tons of carbon sequestered for every hectare every year. popular plywood panel sequesters 700 meters cubed over the course of its life of CO2. We are a carbon net positive product. We are carbon net positive as a company and so that addresses any social governance when it comes to

Kenn Busch • 17:46
environment. And that’s amazing. But just to take a quick glossary break here, carbon negative and climate positive basically mean any product or process that stores more carbon than is released in its production and use. And carbon net positive is the same thing, I guess, right? We’ve got to be careful about this terminology. Make sure we get everything just right.

Meghan Bell • 18:10
Correct. So we do that by using as much of the tree as humanly possible and ideally all of the tree. So any sort of limbs or leaf foliage that falls off the tree is then in the earth and it gives kind of like a fertilizer for the trees to grow. Then we also have the trimmings and the barking that can go towards energy in the plant or like turned into a material that can be used for MDF or HDF. And then actually the very center of the log that’s in the rotary cutting process, like when you unravel your paper towel, you have that tube at the end. That is used as fence posts all over Spain and France.

Kenn Busch • 18:56
So you make use of every fiber almost?

Meghan Bell • 19:01
As much as we possibly can, yes, and that helps to negate the carbon footprint.

Kenn Busch • 19:07
And the great thing about trees and carbon capture is the captured carbon stays captured, stays sequestered, until that would rot or burns, right? So theoretically decades, maybe hundreds of years.

Meghan Bell • 19:23
Exactly. So by using it in buildings and things like that, you’re able to lower the buildings carbon footprint.

Kenn Busch • 19:32
Chris, was that a goal when you guys were looking for this new substrate for your Everply Plus?

Chris Tutuska • 19:40
It was an enhancement that is definitely something that we can sell on. I think it’s important to some customers in certain spaces, whether that’s an architect that’s seeking a certain certification or a green level for their building or their project or someone that needs points to achieve that.

Kenn Busch • 20:03
In addition to all of the other benefits that this allows you guys to offer your customers, right? Lighter weight, better performance. Take through these one more time for me if you would, just because I think it’s a really powerful story. Right. I think so some of the challenges that

Chris Tutuska • 20:22
have been addressed and we talked about them at a high level earlier, but one of the main things is thickness accuracy. In years past, with previous iterations of plywood, when you think about manufacturers that have, whether it’s a CNC machines, whether it’s boring operations, whether it’s operations that create different thicknesses and channels. When you have a material that was more variable than I talked about in previous versions of plywood, it throws havoc into widths, depths, and everything like that. So some manufacturers were hesitant to use these because a lot of times they would have to change programs and do all of that. With this material, But we’re claiming a thickness accuracy of plus or minus five thousands, which is almost close to particle board and MDF as far as a composite panel. So in essence, you’re telling the manufacturer that you don’t have to change programs, that you don’t have to measure before it gets on the machine, kind of breaking down that barrier. From the lightweight aspect, I mean, that’s always a positive when speaking anything plywood. We find that compared to particle board, about 15% lighter and compared to MDF, about 30% lighter and stronger. That’s always a great benefit. With our product in particular, we’re able to offer this on any one of our TFL textures, any one of our decors at pretty low minimum. We’re not talking containers or truckloads, we’re talking units. So that is also something that’s different than a lot of other solutions out there that have a TFL laminated plywood.

Kenn Busch • 22:13
And that’s always a challenge because the TFL is a decorative panel as it comes out of the Thunder factory, right? It has the faces on it, it’s got the decor, all you need to do is size it and edge it, unless you have other more sophisticated designs coming. But you’re shipping a whole panel, right? And I’ve been having discussions with distributors like, God, we’d love to take X company’s whole new design launch, but there’s no way we can stock that many different 4 by 8 or 5 by 10 sheets of material. So your solution for them is to say, you can order just as many as you need. There aren’t minimum orders or the minimum orders

Chris Tutuska • 22:54
aren’t that minimum? usually one unit or two unit depending on what it is. But, you know, another aspect that I even forgot to mention that in this, this comes with people using Garnika’s products over time. We’ve heard from multiple manufacturers that it even increases their their tool bit life. So you’re thinking about CNC bits and saw blades. Some are saying 40 to 50% longer because the, you know, the cores that they use are less abrasive on those tools. So I mean, when thinking about this product, it’s all of the good things that we talked about. But then there’s even further enhanced benefits that you don’t really realize until you become a Guarnica or an Everply Plus Acolyte. And so that’s something, another side benefit that the users experience.

Kenn Busch • 23:49

• And so yeah, that leads me directly to, Who is most interested in this product? Where is it an ideal fit for your customers? Who is excited about it? Where is it going?

Chris Tutuska • 24:06

• So we find that obviously a lot of frameless manufacturers really like the aspect and the performance, not only from a strength aspect, from a thickness accuracy aspect, but also the clean, consistent cores. I mean, it was a product made, almost tailor made, for frameless cabinets. Other manufacturers that are finding this are closet manufacturers. They’re also see the need for plywood. Plow it is also regional leaf where there’s high moisture environments the further south you go, places like Florida, it’s really, sometimes it’s a requirement for certain builders. We also see that it’s a value engineered solution for commercial projects that use sometimes two-sided HPL and a vertical application, which is totally overbuilding something that doesn’t need to have that HPL surface on both sides. This will allow you to get to a much better performing product, probably at a better price as well.

Kenn Busch • 25:17

• Yeah, HPL, that’s way over engineered. If you’re using HPL on a vertical two-sided panel, that’s crazy. And yeah, like you say, expensive.

Chris Tutuska • 25:28

• A lot of architects, it’s maybe just an education process to show them that they can have variety on a finished composite panel. They don’t have to run to a laminate chain to get that variety. They can still have beautiful textures, beautiful decors, even to the point of having one decor on one side and another decor on another side. There’s flexibility there that’s maybe sometimes people just don’t understand.

Kenn Busch • 25:57
I have a conversation just about every week about people copying and pasting specifications that were probably originally written in the in the 50s. And it’s the one example everybody likes to use is, you know, high pressure laminate on marine grade plywood for a kitchen cabinet, right? Chris is laughing.

Chris Tutuska • 26:18
Right. Do you see that, Chris, still? Yeah, I mean, people go with what they know. They hit the easy button. And sometimes I think it’s up to us as stewards in this industry to educate and tell them the performance requirement needed on a vertical surface. And, you know, if you’re overbuilding something that the people that are paying for it are at the end of the day they are your clients. And so if you can offer them a suitable product that meets the requirements for certain surfaces, you’re doing the best job to give them the best price, I guess, in some sense.

Kenn Busch • 26:56
And in a weird way, this is like a back to the future type material, right? It’s a TFL panel, not HPL, but now we’re back to plywood instead of MDF or particle board. So it’s It’s almost like we’ve learned this lesson and that lesson and now we’ve got a whole new solution for those kinds of specifications. Any other thoughts on this combination of materials? I think we should really kind of drive home the fact that this is special and new.

Chris Tutuska • 27:25
I think from my standpoint, learning more about Garnica, visiting their facilities, seeing the level of precision and the type of equipment that they use to control and and create this product. And it starts even as Meghan mentioned, at the seedling level and seeing how it’s, what I would call agricultural engineering on a scale that I’ve never seen. It’s truly remarkable. It left me inspired and it takes advantage of a lot of these initiatives to try and create products that are responsible. So to me, it checks a lot of boxes. And in some sense, while checking those boxes, you know, it’s similarly priced to what’s out there today. So it’s not like there’s a huge acquisition cost to use a product that is responsible. So I mean, I think that’s really just another aspect of how not only from a performance aspect the innovation around the total material.

Kenn Busch • 28:27
Yeah, it’s not just the material itself that’s been engineered. It’s the whole process. And so I’m a little bit curious. I don’t know how much further we can go Meghan into that, but the way that you guys have systematized the regeneration of these trees, the harvest, the utilization, perfecting it generation after generation, I’m very, I wanna go, right? Can we all go? Would you invite us all to Spain?

Meghan Bell • 28:57

• I would love to. No, the process is really cool for sure. I mean, the way that the trees grow, it’s all taking care of and it’s all been thought through with much deliberation. But the coolest parts that I find, the reason I get out of bed in the morning is the environmental aspect. I mean, we all want something, a good world for our kids to grow up in, right? So the fact that they take so much time and put into the environment and the way that they go about harvesting the trees. I mean, when I was in Spain, there was this one tree that hadn’t been cut down and I asked Enrique, why is that tree not cut down? And he said, well, an animal has made that his home. So we don’t cut that tree down. That’s cool. It’s really, that gives me a good feeling when I go to work, right? I mean, there’s also the health benefits. So we had a client or a mill worker, rather in Greenville, South Carolina. And she said that they don’t purchase any other products now that they’ve moved on to Garnica. And that’s because their respiratory health has been better. They have less sick days and their production is up. So all of those things contribute to cost. And yes, it may be a little bit more, but I mean, when you factor in all of those benefits, you’re actually exceeding the original cost of, say, something of less value.

Kenn Busch • 30:29

• Yeah, that’s amazing. It’s the, you know, and I do a lot of writing and educating about managed forestry here in North America and the ripple effects of an operation, I’m sure like you guys have in Spain, you know, the jobs, the clean air, the sequestered carbon, you know, it’s, and I read an article a couple of years ago and I talk about it every time I’m giving a CEU, The happiest people, the happiest jobs in North America are loggers, right? So people who get to be in the woods every day, apparently that’s– – Yeah, it’s a good feeling. – Yeah, it’s not just a good job to have, but it makes people happy and you’re taking care of the place where you have to live, where your kids play, where your kids are gonna grow up, where–

Meghan Bell • 31:18

• Exactly, and architects and designers are so perfectly placed to be able to cause this change in the market.

Kenn Busch • 31:27
Different species of trees have been engineered by nature to renew even in nature. And I think poplar is one of those species that benefits most from a natural clear-cut type devastation, fires, wind damage, that sort of thing.

Meghan Bell • 31:48
They’re a pioneer species, so they don’t want a canopy. They need a lot of sunlight to grow. So we plant my every five meters or six meters and then that allows for no tree to fight for sunshine.

Kenn Busch • 32:02
We started this whole conversation from the, you know, Chris, I think you brought up the AIA materials pledge and I wasn’t really familiar with that and I’m embarrassed to say, can you tell me just a little bit about that and how, you know, the Everply Plus product with the Garnica substrate is the perfect solution if you are trying to satisfy the AIA materials pledge.

Chris Tutuska • 32:31
Right. I think with the Garnica core that we use in our Everply Plus product, it is actually a carbon positive product. And I think the AIA materials pledge is an assemblage of some very prominent architectural firms that have made the commitment to only use responsibly eco-friendly products. And some have gone even as far to only have these types of products in their part libraries, their product libraries that in every architect office you walk into. So I mean, it’s a really big commitment on their part, but it also really narrows the field of what companies and what materials can truly be qualified in this sense. And so to have a material that would qualify in this space is intriguing and it probably makes you on a shorter list of possible products to be used to design the next project, the next space.

Kenn Busch • 33:41
So have you had the chance to tell this story to people who are trying to adhere to this the AI materials pledge?

Chris Tutuska • 33:51

• Yeah, and some of our distributor customers in that channel, I would say that their customers, I mean, each one of them have A&D spec reps that are very in tune with this type of a pledging commitment. And they know probably some architect firms that would be more apt to adopt something like that. And so it is important to some and, you know, some projects, it’s a requirement. So I mean, I think it says a lot about the those firms that are making that commitment.

Kenn Busch • 34:25
Have you run into this outside of your work with Funder, Meghan, the materials pledge or other other sort of sustainability commitments that the architect and interior design world are trying to pioneer to reuse that word?

Meghan Bell • 34:41
So lead is always a great one to look for when you’re looking for materials for building lead materials and lead buildings are not only higher performing because of the materials used, but I mean the air quality that those buildings are giving off, I guess, those places where those buildings are, the air quality is better. There’s reports of additional production and less sick days and all the things when you we are using LEED certified products. Now we are LEED certified, we’re Bream certified. We’re in the top 3% for wood manufactured materials for EcoVadis, we just received a gold this year. I am consistently going into architects and designers and educating on environmental and health and why Garnica is the right choice. We have a CEU that is HSW that also touches based on sustainable forest management as well as the environment and why we do what we do.

Kenn Busch • 35:49

• Any lessons from those conversations, Meghan, from questions that you get or what you see the A&D community responding to when you’re in front of them telling them about Garnika?

Meghan Bell • 36:00

• Well, when I tell them about that tree story with the animal, they definitely are ears up, ready to listen and totally engaged. Everything having to do with Garnika, it is such a beautiful story. and it is such a beautiful product, even despite the environmental impact, you know, I mean, you’re not giving up quality to gain the environmental impact, right? So that part is very attractive to the architect and designer, especially those who have looked at a project that they’ve had and like Chris said, has a milky white spot on it. They’re like, oh, well, that’s not meant to be there, you know? So once I’ve given a presentation, There’s basically a 99% specification rate thus far.

Kenn Busch • 36:44

• Did you hear that, Chris? – Yeah, I need to tag along on those meetings. – You know, maybe you’re joking, but I think that’s a fantastic idea. Because, you know, when you’re talking about EverPlay Plus, you’re not just selling funder, you’re selling Garnica. – Correct.

Meghan Bell • 37:02

• I mean, when someone uses our product, they don’t wanna stop using the product. So we do see that once you get onto it, it’s very hard to move back.

Kenn Busch • 37:10
the enthusiasm builds, they help you sell more, you know, and it moves the needle, right? Which is what we’re actually trying to do.

Meghan Bell • 37:18

• It does, it also causes motivation, right? I mean, when you feel so good about something, you’re more motivated to get up and go to work. You’re more motivated to get up and do the next thing. And I really do feel like we’re making a difference.

Kenn Busch • 37:32

• Speaking of, you know, being in front of specifiers and whatnot, Chris, what is the process for actually getting this spec in a project? What do people have to understand to, you know, and those, I’ve done previous podcasts on the nightmares of material specifications being switched out long after the design team has sort of, all right, you know, here you go, let’s go. People switching out materials at the end because the spec wasn’t written in a bulletproof way, if that makes sense. So how do we make sure they get Everply Plus when they’re supposed to, Chris?

Chris Tutuska • 38:08

• Right, and I think part of that is, I’m gonna talk a little bit about the multiple thicknesses and sizes that I think are also a differentiator for Everply Plus and this Garnica core. So it is offered in four by eight and five by 10, but it is oversized as well. And those are offered in nine millimeter thickness, 12 millimeter thickness, 16 millimeter, 18 millimeter and 19 millimeter. Thinking about project specifications, it’s good to have architects maybe reach out if they have questions about strength and what thickness is the right thickness? ‘Cause what you don’t wanna do is you don’t wanna overbuilt or over-engineer something if you don’t have to. A lot of frameless cabinet manufacturers as commercial or residential using a product like this, Yeah, maybe they default to the 19 millimeter, which is close to a true three quarter, but in reality, they may only need the 16 millimeter because of the enhanced strength property. So to your point, Ken, I think it’s thinking about those having thoughtful discussions in the beginning before the final spec is written.

Kenn Busch • 39:24
Yeah, and this is what I hear from other conversations too is the design team needs to be in those initial meetings to make sure that they’re setting the right expectations and letting everybody in between design and installation understand that it’s very important that we stick to these choices. Any thoughts on that from your side, Meghan? So in this specification,

Meghan Bell • 39:47
there’s some lines called accepted manufacturers. I would say just kind of specifying that the core is popular. Definitely the accepted manufacturers section is one where you can who makes it.

Kenn Busch • 40:02
Are there LCA’s or EPD’s attached to the Garnica cores or the finished Everply Plus?

Meghan Bell • 40:09
For efficiency, we do have our EPD, yes.

Kenn Busch • 40:12
Super. What an absolutely cool conversation. TFL panels on Apply Wood Core, the Funder Everply Plus decorative panels from Genesis Products. Thanks so much to Chris Tytoska from Funder and Meghan Bell from Garnica. Thank you so much for joining us. We hopefully have improved your material IQ by a point or two. This has been a production of Material Intelligence LLC. All rights reserved.

Meghan Bell • 40:55
Architects and designers are so wonderfully placed to be able to instill change in the market. And when you feel so good about something, you’re more motivated to get up and go to work, you’re more motivated to get up and do the next thing. I really do feel like we’re making a difference.